27 Responses to “Giving Thanks – a Day to Remember”

  1. [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dan Collins, Pow Wow. Pow Wow said: RT @vermontaigne Giving Thanks – a Day to Remember:… http://bit.ly/8xu178 [...]

  2. Mike says:

    Thankful with you, my friend. Enjoy the day!

  3. [...] My fellow New Englander at A Piece of Work in Progress weigh in with a very poignant and deep thankfulness. [...]

  4. Bob Reed says:

    Thanks be to God, our shephard and our rock, who watches over and provides us with precicely all we need at all points throughout our existence.

  5. Dan Collins says:

    Lord knows, I needed some of those asskickings.

    • Clark Peoples says:

      Past tense, Sir?

      You need, you shameless Obama-hater! So ye shall receive!

      Thank you, God, for righteous Obama’s strong pimp hand. May he delivereth his next swat with the force and discipline of a thousand raging nuns.

      Mercy upon the meek, on this special day.

  6. Gary says:

    “murdered by”? What happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty? None of the articles I have read about the incident indicated that people were held in the sweat lodge against their will.

    Then again, people that pay $10,000 for a retreat probably are still looking for their personal will.

    The sweat lodge incident is a tragedy made worse by all the name calling and people looking to make money with unfounded claims and law suits.

    • Enoch_Root says:

      Gary – “the sweat lodge incident?” Well, fuck you too. He was the bossman sitting at the door – pushing people to stay inside. That is not how the Lakota do it at all. Using plastic tarps that off-gas? Hmmmm. It’s murder you fuck – and James Arthur Ray is the murderer.

      Do you really think I have anything to gain from James Arthur Ray? I have no standing you ass-face.

      Now his lovely wife and children… that is a different story – the guy is a scum-bag. Ray Must Pay…

      • Gary says:

        Hello Enoch_Root,

        Well, I guess you will have the last word on this as I certainly don’t need to comment on your lack of ability to reply without making personal insults. Though I do think that you have confused stupidity with intent.

        I stand by my statement that people need to take personal responsibility for their actions. JAR didn’t hold a gun to anyones head.

        Notice, that I was able to reply without one single swear word or reference to your dubious ancestry.

        • Enoch_Root says:

          Gary – that comment had NOTHING TO DO with my ancestry. The point about referring to the Lakota is that this “sweat” was a bad analog of a Native American sacred practice. And it was conducted by a man, James A Ray, who posed as an expert – that is, someone who knew what he was doing. Which, had he been an actual Medicine Man, would not have ended in the deaths of three people and the hospitalization of another 20+ people.

          1) the “lodge” was poorly constructed and NOT in keeping with how the Native Americans construct them.
          2) there were far too many people in the “lodge” – again, an actual expert would NEVER permit it
          3) there is eye-witness testimony stating that JAR strongly rebuked one person for leaving – calling it “sacrilegious”
          4) when others in the death lodge started to let JAR know that people were passed out – unresponsibe – he is said to have said, “leave them. we’ll deal with them in the next round.” No Lakota Medicine Man would do such a thing. Not one.

          My best friend, James Shore, trusted JAR when James Arthur Ray posed as an expert. Misplaced as that trust now turns out to be – James Shore is dad because of it.

          Now, what gets me extremely pissed off is that you do not know the circumstances as I do – nor do you have the knowledge I have about what went down… specifically. Though I am not permitted to acknowledge it. Yet.

          Further, when you find out that James Shore was an actual hero – saving one person by dragging them out while they were unconscious – and going in to get another – only to succumb to death in the process – will you come back here and comment about how great a man he was? How he died a hero, giving his life for another?

          Will you then reflect on this asinine comment? Then again, people that pay $10,000 for a retreat probably are still looking for their personal will.

          Talk about innocent until proven guilty… yeah, you know nothing of that now, do you? Insulting a dead man? Insulting a hero? Not on my watch.

        • Enoch_Root says:

          BTW – I am a Mick. Not Lakota. Never claimed to be. Although, the Lakota were kind enough to invite me to an actual Sweat – which I did participate in… and lo and behold, I did not die. Here is why: the Medicine Man who led the Sweat actually knew what he was doing.

    • Enoch_Root says:

      “Then again, people that pay $10,000 for a retreat probably are still looking for their personal will.”

      You know nothing about James Shore, you c*nt. You are likely a paid shill… James Shore was a man of towering intellect and amazing critical thinking skills. He went to quit smoking and caffeine – so as he could live a healthier life. Does that also impugn his character? Or does that speak to his will power (or lack thereof)?

      You have no idea what you are speaking about. Nor do you know what I know about what happened there… But the truth will out.

      • Gary says:

        Hello Enoch_Root,

        You know nothing about me yet you feel the need to call me names and make unsubstantiated claims.

        So let’s get one thing straight, whether or not you are willing to believe it, I am not a “paid shill” nor do I or have I ever gained monetarily from JAR. I am just someone that is really irritated by people that make ad hominem claims. But in an effort to make full disclosure I have read a book authored by JAR and watched The Secret.

        If you hadn’t made the claim that JAR “murdered” your friend I wouldn’t have made a comment about your post and if you were intelligent enough to carry on a conversation without making derogatory comments about me I probably would have let your reply go. But when one needs to use words like “c*nt” and “fuck you” in when making reference to me, well that irritates me.

        “will you come back here and comment about how great a man he was? How he died a hero, giving his life for another?”

        As for your friend being a hero, I’m not sure how I would define a hero without more knowledge, something that you claim to have, but I will certainly give you that he was a very brave and giving person if he died trying to rescue another participant. Once again, I can only go by what I have read and the articles that I have seen use wiggle words like “claim” to describe witness statements.

        “You know nothing about James Shore, you c*nt. You are likely a paid shill… James Shore was a man of towering intellect and amazing critical thinking skills. He went to quit smoking and caffeine – so as he could live a healthier life. Does that also impugn his character? Or does that speak to his will power (or lack thereof)?”

        Look I’m not going to get into an argument about your friends “towering intellect and amazing critical thinking skills” or his reasons for attending beyond saying that lots of people kick addictions without the need of a $10,000 sweat lodge treatment. I know that kicking nicotine is difficult but I also watched my dad kick the habit cold turkey so I know it can be done without a sweat lodge experience. And by the way, let’s clear up your gender problems, I’m a d*ck not a “c*nt”.

        If you had made a more cogent post initially I wouldn’t have said anything and might have agreed with you that your friend was a “hero”. But instead of using facts to support your arguments you cast aspersions around like rice at a wedding.

        Like you I have no first hand knowledge, I assume that you weren’t actually there, about the construction of the lodge or incidents during the ceremony. You claim to have more inside information which may or may not be true but I am not privy to said information. But even if we assume that all of your information is true I still feel that the term “murdered” is too strong at this time.

        Your friend may have made the ultimate sacrifice but he was safe and chose to put his life at risk to try and save others. (Believe me I am not trying to diminish your friends actions or minimize JAR’s responsibility in the incident.) I’m just not sure that I would the term “murdered” based on actions as I currently know them.

        I’m sure that your friend would be really proud of your response on his behalf. Somehow, if the places were reversed, I don’t think your friend would’ve need to stoop to besmirching others.

        Well its your turn to call me names and make more unsubstantiated claims, but could you be a little more creative this time, “fuck you” and c*nt” are getting a little repetitive. I could suggest a few new words for you but that would ruin the surprise.

        • Enoch_Root says:

          Gary – you are likely a shill – how is that? I mean, I am sure there are lots of JAR fanatics who consume his tripe and now want to “stand by their man,” so to speak.

          I do believe you are trying to minimize James Arthur Ray’s responsibility… simply by stating something like, “…I can only go by what I have read and the articles that I have seen use wiggle words like “claim” to describe witness statements.” Your point is to introduce doubt. And, again, this smacks of someone with a hobby horse.

          Don’t tell me – or presume to tell me about James Shore and how he would be proud of me for my response. You know nothing about him. And James was a hell of a lot nastier than I, BTW. Likely he would’ve ripped your face off in a more direct manner than to “besmirch” you with f*ck you and c*nt. But then that wouldn’t fit your impression of him would it?

          Again, I do believe you are a paid shill – or maybe someone who believes JAR is something more than a used car salesman. Maybe you are the real sad story here: you are still defending the charlatan, while I am defending an honorable and righteous man.

          How does that feel exactly, “Gary”?

        • Enoch_Root says:

          One last thing – look at the time-date stamps of my correspondence – and your replies. Was the chronology of the discussion purposefully missed by you?

          • Gary says:

            In case your so ignorant that you haven’t noticed I haven’t “besmirched” your friend. NONE of the statements that I made directly referenced you or your friend, until now.

            As for whether or not your friend would have “ripped my face off” I doubt that the your combined IQ would boil water so I’m really not all that concerned. Though I will assume that the majority of the IQ count would come from your friend as its obvious that yours doesn’t break three digits.

            As for the chronology of the posts, your right I haven’t paid any attention to the exact order as I can think my responses through and only need to make one post not a sequence of random thoughts.

            Frankly, I don’t know what JAR’s responsibility in all of this is and neither do you. Ultimately, he is responsible but as many of our past Presidents have shown that may or may not come into play. I haven’t seen any information on who actually built the sweat lodge, though I doubt that JAR dirtied his hand in the construction.

            Frankly, if I was going to do a sweat lodge experience and saw that it was constructed of plastic sheeting I wouldn’t have gone in, but I actually took science courses in high school and college and know that plastics out gas when heated and that the gas can be poisonous.

            Somehow I doubt that JAR would have gone into the sweat lodge if he thought that there was a problem as I’m sure that he values his own life after all he had a pretty cushy thing going preaching to sheeple.

            As for whether or not you believe that I am a shill or apologist I could care less. Your so much fun to poke that I am starting to look forward to the witty repartee. I haven’t been flamed in years. And yes its sad that I would waste more time on you than I would deciding to squash a fly.

            “Charlatan”? Didn’t your people have medicine men? I’m sure that they based sweat lodge spirituality on science, no wait science and spiritual are mutually exclusive. Last I checked science couldn’t prove the existence of God or any other spiritual entity. One persons charlatan is another persons spiritual leader, e.g. medicine men, priests, politicians, soothsayers…

            Also, I don’t remember any “honorable and righteous” men in history that ripped peoples faces off. Honorable, righteous and violence typically aren’t found in the same person. Well maybe righteous and violent as most despots claim to be righteous but certainly not honorable.

            As for “defending” a charlatan where have I said that JAR was innocent? All along the way I have said that he is guilty of stupidity at the least and probably the loss of three lives due to that stupidity. My whole point has been that only irresponsible people call someone a murderer before the facts are shown in the court of law.

            Of course most bloggers don’t really give a damn about fact or points of law if they can get some attention by making wild claims.

            Well, I have to get back to shilling for the 911 truthers, UFO believers, ghost hunters, crop circle believers, FOX news, holocaust deniers, illuminate and of course the Knights Templar. So many causes and so little time.

            BTW, are you so concerned about your image now that now you use “f*ck” instead of the full spelling as you did earlier in the posts. What a laugh.

          • Enoch_Root says:

            Gary – Blogging isnt my full-time gig. this isn’t my site, after all, it is Dan’s.

            As for caring about my image, howabout this: fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.

            I see no need to purposefully make readers uncomfortable. So, when I am calm, I spell it with f*ck. When I am not, it usually comes out, “fuck”. Likewise with the word “cunt”.

            You are not interested in the truth. James Shore died because of JAR’s negligence. James is dead because of JAR. That makes JAR a murderer in my book. What does it make him in yours?

          • Enoch_Root says:

            “Charlatan”? Didn’t your people have medicine men? I’m sure that they based sweat lodge spirituality on science, no wait science and spiritual are mutually exclusive. Last I checked science couldn’t prove the existence of God or any other spiritual entity. One persons charlatan is another persons spiritual leader, e.g. medicine men, priests, politicians, soothsayers…

            I told you already – I am a lowly Mick – not a Lakota.

            As for science and spiritual being mutually exclusive, I would never in a million years claim such a thing.

            Equating Medicine Men and Priests with Pols and Soothsayers? What is wrong with you? That’s just low.

  7. Gary says:

    Hello Enoch_Root,

    Let’s be real clear here, your friend was outside the sweat lodge and freely chose to reenter the lodge knowing the situation. He could have chosen to remain outside of the lodge and still be alive.

    JAR was at a minimum stupid and egotistical. He had a sweat lodge built by people that obviously had no idea of how to correctly build one.

    But what you haven’t proven is that there is a connection between the design of the lodge and JAR. He was in the lodge just like everyone else which makes him suicidal if he knew that the plastic would out gas and cause the deaths of his followers.

    Last time I check my marketing manual killing a few of your followers wasn’t listed as a way to increase your cash flow and followers. In fact JAR is probably washed up in the new age fluff market as he should be.

    Ok, so you’ve debased yourself by claiming that you are a lowly Mick. I will admit my ignorance about the Micks but I doubt that you wandered the American frontier without some form of deity. So if I’ve insulted the medicine men by associating them with Micks I apologize.

    As for my disassociation of science and spirituality I know a number of scientist that would agree with me. Have you ever read anything by Richard Dawkins to name just one? BTW, you wont find him on the comics page or your newspaper.

    “Equating Medicine Men and Priests with Pols and Soothsayers? What is wrong with you? That’s just low.”

    Maybe, maybe not it all depends on you experience and viewpoint. I was turned off to organized religion when the priest at our church refused to do my fathers funeral but didn’t care where the money came from when my mother donated money for construction of the new church. And let’s not forget the Rev. Wright our Presidents’ spiritual leader.

    So no I don’t think my comparison was particularly off base.

    • Enoch_Root says:

      Gary – you don’t make any sense. Richard Dawkins is an intellectual lightweight… Now GK Chesterson… that guy is what brilliance is. And if you don’t like him you can try any of the Doctors of the Church. you’ll have to look them up.

      You don’t know what a Mick is, do you? Sad.

      And, cry me a river about your dad and his funeral. Sorry he died outside of the faith of his birth. He had his whole life to be in concert with Her. In life if he chose not to be – why would you expect him to be in death?

      He chose to leave the Church. He could have chosen to return to it… no?

    • Enoch_Root says:

      There is always Christ’s Divine Mercy.

      I am sorry I teed off on you and your troubles re your father. That was not Christian of me.

      So, although an insufferable apologist and shill for JAR, you are still human. And possess dignity.

      So, for being mean I am sorry.

  8. Gary says:

    First let’s clear up your misunderstanding about my father, he was never a religious man as far as I know but he supported my mother in her religious beliefs and freely gave large amounts of money that he earned, my mother didn’t work outside the home, to my mother to donate to our local church. The priest was happy to take the money but had a problem with assisting in the funeral because my father wasn’t Catholic. Hypocritical at the least.

    So before you cry your river you might want to reread my reply. I wasn’t expecting any condolence from you only illustrating why I put priest in the list.

    As for your claim that I am an apologist and shill for JAR nothing I can do or say will change the mind of an outlier so I’m not going to try except to say once again that I am neither nor have I ever benefited financially from JAR, his company or any associated companies, etc.

    You simply don’t like my position and I can understand your position. In the last five or so years I have lost three very good 30+ year friends and I can tell you that you never really get over it.

    You will find yourself driving by some restaurant or tavern that you and your friend used to frequent and your mood will change for no reason even years later. You will find funny ways to remember them, I couldn’t bring myself to delete their entries in my cell phone until I was forced to a couple of months ago when I bought a new iPhone and had to change how I kept my numbers.

    But then you will also have those moments when you find yourself thinking about your friend in the present tense for no reason, something in the back of your mind just clicks and you have to stop and remember that the person is dead.

    I freely admit that I have little, actually that’s a lie, no knowledge of your ancestral customs. If you would like to post a couple of URLs I would take the time to read the referenced pages.

    While I doubt that we could ever be friends hopefully we can end this thread with mutual respect. I know what its like to lose a good friend. I don’t know if its worse to lose them in this sort of tragedy but in the end they are dead and there is a hole left in your life.

    So in parting I would like to say, May the sand of time fill that hole but not completely as we always want to remember our departed friends.

    gary

    • Enoch_Root says:

      Gary – those are very kind words. Seriously appreciated.

      As for the priest in question – all I can say is he doesn’t make the rules – only abides them to the best of his abilities.

      As for your father, we can rest assured that God in his Infinite Mercy will tend to him. And even though not “religious” he did support your mother’s religiosity. And specifically, Catholicism. So, he must’ve have been okay with it to a large extent. It is very hard for a man to give himself over completely. But we cannot see the hearts of men. It may well be that your father was something of a Saint in the eyes of God. It is surely not outside the realm of what is possible for God. So, we must hope and pray that your father is spending or will one day spend eternity in the presence of the Creator. i will pray for his soul. If he is in Heaven, he of course has no need of it. In Hell, he will not benefit from it – but if he is in Purgatory, there is benefit to do so. I will assume if he is in Heaven and not in need of those prayers, he will pass them on to someone who does. If in Purgatory, may he have a foretaste – a sip at the Font of Mercy – and may he come to rest in the arms of his Maker sooner rather than later.

      As for “Mick” – it’s a derogatory term for “Irishman”.

      As for James Shore – I would simply ask for your prayers that he find Eternal Peace. And that JAR reconcile himself to God.

  9. Gary says:

    I have heard the term “Mick” used in reference to the Irish but was confused by the fact that we have been talking about American Indian heritage and I thought it might refer to one of the many obscure Indian tribes that inhabited the U.S.

    As for your friend James, I have never had anything but the kindest of thoughts. No one deserves to die as he did regardless of blame.

    I don’t know if JAR will reconcile with his God but I’m sure that if there is an afterlife that his will not be as cushy as his current one has been.

    Have a good Christmas and a long and happy life.

    BTW, it has nothing to do with the prior discussion but I am half Ukrainian. My grandparents immigrated to the U.S. shortly after WWI. So we do have something in common being the children of working class immigrants.

    gary

  10. I will be book marking this site for sure!

  11. Amazing Post! Finally a blog that isnt just junk.

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